SPOILERS ALERT!!!
Hello everyone! 🙂
Welcome to ‘Bradley’s Basement’ blog and I’m Tim Bradley!
Oh dear. This is a tough one. Initially, I had in mind to revisit the first ‘Joker’ movie from 2019 before going to see the second ‘Joker’ film at the cinema. In the end, I decided not to revisit the first ‘Joker’ film, as I didn’t have the time but also because I didn’t need to. 😐
I felt that with the nature of the first film being self-contained and a psychological thriller, I could just go in to see the second film without needing to know what happened in the first film. I’d seen the first film twice beforehand. First time at the cinema, second time on Amazon Prime Video.
It was probably for the best that I didn’t see the first film again, as I think if I had, my expectations of the second film would have been crushed. Not that I expected much from seeing the second film, but I’m astonished by its reception from critics and audiences. 😀
When it comes to talking about the first ‘Joker’ film, I consider it to be a very enjoyable origins story of an established ‘Batman’ supervillain. On reflection, I wouldn’t consider myself enamoured with the film, but I’d consider it far superior than the first ‘Venom’ movie.
With ‘Joker 2’ (Yeah, I know it’s called ‘Joker: Folie à Deux’, but honestly, I don’t find that a very memorable title. So, I’m calling it ‘Joker 2’ instead), I expected this film to be about Arthur Fleck/Joker meeting this universe’s version of Harley Quinn and fall in love with her.
In a sense, it is what happened, but I was hoping the film would end on a note where the Joker and Harley Quinn were out on the run, causing a crime spree in Gotham City. That sadly isn’t what happened in the film, and I’ll get into what happens in the film’s climax shortly.
Interestingly, the film is presented as a musical as well as being a psychological thriller. A fascinating approach and one I wouldn’t object to, especially as Lady Gaga is playing Harley Quinn (or Lee Quinzel as she’s called in the film) opposite Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker.
The musical element works fine in the fantasy sequences that Arthur has, especially when he and Harley are doing musical numbers resonated from films in the 1940s and such. There’s an element of Fred Astaire and the song ‘That’s Entertainment’ included. 🙂
But sometimes, it’s hard to tell when the fantasy musical sequences happen in the reality parts of the film. There’s one point where Arthur is doing a musical number in the reality sense before it turns out to be a fantasy. But other times, it did get quite confusing for me.
This especially occurs when Lee/Harley meets Arthur/Joker during a visiting hour whilst he’s in Arkham State Hospital and she’s on the outside. She sings to him whilst he’s behind the glass, before she paints a Joker’s smile on the glass for him to match his smile to it. 😐
But I don’t think that’s considered a fantasy sequence. Or maybe it is, as it’s bizarre that none of the prison guards came in to interrupt their moment of intimacy, even if it’s for a musical moment. Perhaps that’s the point of the film if you try very hard thinking about it.
For a while, I was willing to give this film a pass, especially as I found it intriguing how the trial scenes for Arthur Fleck on what he did in killing five people in the first film were conducted. But what ultimately lets this film down very badly for me is how it ends.
I know that’s a bit ironic to say, but when the courthouse exploded due to a car-bomb going off after the jury gave out their verdict on Arthur Fleck, I was expecting it to be Harley Quinn who did that. Like the film would finish on the Joker and Harley running off together.
But that didn’t happen because Lee/Harley decided to dump Arthur/Joker when he managed to escape and she did it because he decided to give up his Joker identity whilst in court. I found that very disappointing after all the build-up in their relationship together.
And then, to cap it all off, the film concludes with Arthur being killed off by a patient in Arkham State Hospital. I’m not sure if we’ve seen that patient before. I thought we had, but I think it’s a different character. But, yeah! Arthur gets killed in this, and then the end credits roll up.
I had an astonished look when I saw that happen, and this was confirmed when I turned to look to my best mate Stephen on my left, who also had an astonished look the same as me. We were like, “Is that it?” We had expected the film to end differently to how it turned out.
By concluding the second film on that note, it means there won’t be a third ‘Joker’ film being made any time soon. Maybe that was deliberate on the director’s part, as he probably wasn’t keen on doing the sequel. I can’t confirm, but that’s the impression I got.
It’s very disappointing and I’m astonished the film ended like that. It was even more astonishing for me when I checked out the reviews and it turned out ‘Joker 2’ is considered one of the ‘worst films’ ever made. This is following on from the success of the first movie. 😦
It’s a shame because, like I said, I was willing to give this film a pass two thirds in and found some of the ideas featured in the film fascinating, especially in depicting Arthur Fleck during his trial as well as seeing him forming a semi-romance with Harley Quinn. 😐
As is, ‘Joker 2’ is a film that feels like it was deliberately made to end on a note with the director saying, “I didn’t want to make the sequel and I’m deliberately sabotaging it”. Again, I can’t confirm that’s the case, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it turned out to be true.
The cast are very good in this film. As well as Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga, there’s Brendan Gleeson as Jackie Sullivan, a guard at Arkham State Hospital, Catherine Keener as Maryanne Stewart, Arthur’s lawyer, and Zazie Beets returns as Sophie Dumond in the film.
Steve Coogan is in this film too. Despite that, ‘Joker 2’ wasn’t really as good a film as I expected it to be. It makes wonder whether I’ll enjoy ‘Venom: The Last Dance’ more than ‘Joker 2’, which is quite ironic, since I anticipated ‘Joker 2’ would be better than ‘Venom 3’.
At least ‘Deadpool & Wolverine’ has earned its place with being a successful comic book superhero film lately. 😐
Thanks for reading!
Bye for now!
Tim 🙂
Bradley's Basement 
A sequel not doing as critically well as the original film can say a lot about the gambles that sequels in the film industry often take. But for the chance for Lady Gaga to shine her light as Harley Quinn, naturally our curiosity is peaked. I’ve found a great respect for her. Because I’m on record for how even films or shows that receive a lot of flack may still be appealing for subjective reasons and certainly a remarkable actor or actress taking on a specifically iconic role. I could easily enjoy what Arnold Schwarzeneggar had naturally achieved as Mr. Freeze in Batman & Robin. Nowadays the casting for such supervillains has become a lot more sophisticated, most mesmerizingly Colin Farrell as the Penguin, and that’s easily a good thing. So in the tradition of what our most cherished actors and actresses can do in this genre for this generation, I’ve been impressed enough by the bravery to take certain chances. Thank you, Tim, for your review.
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Hi scifimike,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this movie and about Lady Gaga as Harley Quinn. This is my first encounter with Lady Gaga. I know she did a film version of ‘A Star is Born’ with Bradley Cooper, but I’ve yet to see that film. I enjoyed her take on Harley Quinn in ‘Joker 2’, though I wish she’d been used to her full potential, matching to how Margot Robbie played the character in the ‘Suicide Squad’ films. Like I said, I wish ‘Joker 2’ ended with the Joker and Harley Quinn running off together to cause crime in Gotham City, instead of the actual ending. It would have given a good reason for the film to exist, but it seems clear to me that the director Todd Phillips wasn’t keen about doing this film compared to doing the first film, which is a shame.
Many thanks for your comments.
Best wishes,
Tim 🙂
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Since rewatching the first movie which is overrated I definitely won’t be watching this sequel as I don’t like musicals.
Even if there wasn’t any musical elements I’d waited for streaming & yup it’s a box office failure because from what I read it’s a two finger salute to fans of the first film.
For me Heath Ledger, Mark Hamill & Jack Nicolson are my favourite Jokers not this interpretation & definitely not Jared Letos version which was awful.
If you want to see how a comic villian is written well watch The Penguin series with Colin Farrell it’s a outstanding series.
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Hi Simon,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It’s fascinating how over time, people’s opinions on the first ‘Joker’ movie change compared to when it first came out in 2019, as you and Xavier/WF92 don’t seem to regard it highly these days compared to initial viewings. I admit, it’s been a while since I’ve seen the first ‘Joker’ film, but I found it entertaining enough. It’ll be interesting to uncover whether my thoughts on the first ‘Joker’ film have changed significantly once I get to do an in-depth review on the film.
A sequel like ‘Joker 2’ doesn’t help matters, particularly when it goes in a direction no-one would have expected and certainly not one when it ends on a disappointing note. I recently saw the 1989 ‘Batman’ film with Jack Nicholson as the Joker and found him enjoyable and engaging in that compared to the Joaquin Phoenix version of the Joker. Heath Ledger’s pretty good too, though I’ve not seen ‘The Dark Knight’ in a while. I’ve not seen the animated ‘Batman’ TV series yet, though I enjoyed ‘The Batman/Superman Movie: World’s Finest’ with Mark Hamill voicing the Joker.
I’m astonished by the reception ‘Joker 2’ has recieved and how it comes across that the people behind it didn’t seem to be that passionate in making it compared to the first movie. Maybe there should have been a different director or perhaps the sequel shouldn’t have been made at all. I don’t hate ‘Joker 2’ severely, but it’s not a film I would regard highly. I imagine I would look at ‘Joker 2’ more favourably compared to when I eventually check out ‘Venom: The Last Dance’, as from what I’ve seen of the trailers, it looks to be a different kind of bad.
Thanks for recommending ‘The Penguin’. I’m not really in a hurry to see it, since I’m not a NOW subscriber and I’m not a fan of ‘The Batman’ movie, which the series is spun from. Maybe when it comes to a DVD release, I might check out ‘The Penguin’ series then. I’ve yet to check out ‘Peacemaker’, the spin-off series from ‘The Suicide Squad’ 2021 film.
Many thanks for your comments.
Best wishes,
Tim 🙂
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An excellent review. Joker: Folie a Deux is definitely a movie that I am excited to see soon. I was a massive fan of the first Joker which raised the bar for the comic book genre. Joaquin Phoenix was truly extraordinary in it. I’m genuinely curious to see how a sequel would turn out to be. Despite the negative reviews, I will check this out when I find the time. I do hope I enjoy it more than the critics have.
Here’s why I loved the first Joker:
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Hi Huilahi,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the first ‘Joker’ movie and thanks for sharing the link to your review. Hope you get to enjoy seeing the second ‘Joker’ film when you can. It’s quite an intriguing sequel to the first film, and whilst it wasn’t what I expected it to be, I’m glad I saw it recently.
I’m currently hoping to check out ‘Transformers One’ next at the cinema.
Best wishes,
Tim 🙂
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Great review once again. I had the chance to see Joker Folie a Deux recently and surprisingly ended up enjoying it. Is it as good as the first movie? Absolutely not. That being said, I really enjoyed the performances, tone and themes explored in the film. Both Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga were truly phenomenal. I guess I’m in the minority because the majority of critics absolutely hate it.
Here’s my thoughts on the movie:
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Hi Huilahi,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on ‘Joker 2’ and very pleased you enjoyed the film. Thanks for sharing the link to your review. I’ve not come across many people who like ‘Joker 2’, so it’s refreshing to come across an opinion from someone who actually liked the film. I’m astonished that both ‘Joker 2’ and ‘Venom 3’ ended up being rated as bad films by audiences and critics, as I expected ‘Joker 2’ to be more successful and highly rated than ‘Venom 3’. I came across an opinion that said both films are the same, especially with the Joker and Venom getting killed off at the end of their films, which I suppose is a fair and fascinating argument.
Many thanks for your insight and comments.
Best wishes,
Tim 🙂
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